Oblationem (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

Its namely, matter, form and intention. Changing the words of our Lord from (many) to the ecumenical (all) at least throws some doubt on the validity of the new mass. No, it is not the Traditional Catholic Latin Mass that is Protestant; it is the ecumenical new mass (small m) that is Protestant. Furthermore, the intention of offering-up to God a true sacrifice in propitiation for the sins of the living and the dead is hidden in the N/O. It is a sin to attend a Mass that is doubtful.

starchyp92 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

CONT. However, now I am fully supportive and approving of the society and Mons. Lefebvre. Some SSPXers are truly nice. But this wacko comment you give doubting the validity of the Mass scares me. We should leave all of the past 40 yrs there, and try to rebuild the Church. But I know you will quote something contesting what I said. So what I comes down to is, who shall we believe. Is it Obaltionem , or the Magisterium and Pope, guided by God. A layman vs. Vicar of of Christ.

starchyp92 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

If this "defect" you speak of concerns "for all" vs. "for many," this is a weak argument. Since the early days of the Church the words of institution have been "This is my Body" and 'This is my Blood." Also, please do not bring up that Vatican II didn't have the authority to change the mass. This is purely protestant, as Our Lord would never allow the Pope together with the Magisterium to promulgate a false mass. The only counter to this is to say that the Pope wasn't really the Pope(Cont.)

Agila1 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

There were people who abused the Mass before and after the introduction of the Novus Ordo. The Novus Ordo Missa is just as valid as the Tridentine Mass.Do not make the Mass unto itself an idol and thereby neglect the obedience that true Catholics are called to!

Oblationem (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

No, it is not fine when its done the way Rome wants it to be done. There is doubtful validity of the Novus Ordo Missae due to probable defect of form in the consecration of the wine. Furthermore, the traitors who did this knew exactly what they were doing when they did it. The Novus Ordo Mass itself is an abuse.

Thunderbolt1000T (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

I think that the Novus Ordo is fine when it's done the way that Rome intends it to be. The Modernist heretics would have infiltrated the Church whether Vatican II happened or not. Mass is Mass, as long as there aren't any abuses, such as irreverence for the Blessed Sacrament by the servers, or doctrinal errors in the homily.

Thunderbolt1000T (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

mm3861, I also hope that SSPX and the Vatican can work something out. I think that Pope Benedict, who seems to be more conservative than other recent popes, can work something out, with God's help of course. The parish where I currently have RCIA has the most reverent Novus Ordo Mass I've ever seen, with organ and choir, traditional music, some Latin hymns, and no guitars. They also offer perpetual adoration, and a TLM at 12:30 PM on Sundays, and again on Tuesday mornings.

TrainmasterCurt (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

I'm an Anglo-Catholic, and this mass is very much the same as my parish, except that it is said in latin, if my church ever did close down, i would probably have to go to an SSPX church, they do care about truth and reverence

Hgreg015 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

We have lost such beauty! Mary Mother of God please pray that the church will be restored.

mm3861 (December 31, 1969 at 4:59 pm)

When you say "Church of Christ" you are speaking of the Holy Roman Catholic Church... the ONE TRUE Church!